PLEASE REGISTER TO POST. Also, be sure to visit the main website www.tedgreene.com

**************************************************************************************
Buy NOW on Amazon
My Life with The Chord Chemist
A Memoir of Ted Greene, Apotheosis of Solo Guitar
Available at amazon.com

*Check it out!!!

VISIT OUR NEW SUPPORT PORTAL
Your contributions keep the site healthy and growing


More information HERE

Official Ted Greene Archives Blog

Ted Greene Archives on YouTube

Join Ted on FACEBOOK

NEW! Follow on TWITTER

..:: The Ted Greene Forums ::..
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
El_Nick

Registered:
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #1 

I am interested in understanding chord nomenclature. I read that altered 5ths can be added to any chord. Obviously this is untrue. Prime example: flat 5th can not be added to G+11. Such silly examples aside, I would like to know if any difinitive work is available on this subject. What are the general rules of nomenclature?  I have also heard that there are only three types of chord: subdominant, dominant and tonic (resolution). I vaguely understand this, however I would like to delve a little deeper. When I do a google search for strange chords I keep getting the same answers. Most of which don't really tell me anything.

 

I will give an example, off the top of my head: What is the name of the chord which contains a  suspended 4th, flat fifth and major 7th.? [All legitimate intervals which are  easy to fit into some type of tonality]. The problem I have, is that I do not wish to invent my own names, but I can not find Cmaj7sus4-5. This is one of many similar examples. Perhaps I ought to call this chord a dominant, due to the dissonance created by the two half tone intervals? But I am guessing about this. This particular arrangement of notes is actually quite fascinating and unique! It actually deserves a special name!

 

Does anyone have an opinion or know of any decent sites, which deal with chord nomenclature in depth? Please post your favorite links, as I really am interested in this subject. I would be grateful for any response.

 

Thanks, El_Nick


__________________
El Nick
klasaine

Registered:
Posts: 151
Reply with quote  #2 
With a "modern" chord like that you can call it whatever you want - just be prepared to answer some questions about voicing it/spelling it.

I'd call it a D13#9 (without the root - D). Fairly common actually. Once you have that many extensions and alterations on a chord, the root is sometimes rendered meaningless.  It's a  really cool "static"  dominant chord voiced like this: C F F# B - D or E on top of that ... maybe moving?

__________________
ken lasaine
PaulV

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,711
Reply with quote  #3 

Hi El Nick,

I don't have a "TG" answer for you, but maybe some of the other experts here will chime in.  That is an interesting chord, but I think you may be right about it being called by a different root name.  The Cmaj7(sus4, b5) seems to thrust out of the C major family with the addition of the 4.  I see it more as a D13(#9) chord, or an Ab13(b9), both without the root.

 

Here is one voicing I tried:  C, Gb, B, F

C  -  root, b5, 7, 4

Here is how I see it:

D  -  b7, 3, 13, #9

Ab - 3, b7, #9, 13

 

Of course, it all depends on how the chord is functioning in a progression, and if it works and sounds right to your ears as a C major chord, well then, I guess it would be that.

 

I don't know if this will help at all, since the Cmaj7(sus4, b5) isn't listed, but here is Ted's reference chart on chord construction.

--Paul

 



__________________
--Paul
El_Nick

Registered:
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #4 

Thanks a lot, Your answers are very enlightening. I am very happy with the chord formulas. I only know so much about this subject and I am trying to tie together some loose ends. The combination of notes which I posted only has one inversion, which I think is unusual. The second inversion contains exactly the same intervals as the root position.

 

I notice thatTed says that he will deal with diminished chords in more detail later. I only know of 4 types of diminished chord, namely:

 

diminished7 = 1, m3, b5, bb7

half diminished = 1, m3, b5, b7

double diminished = 1, dim3, b5, bb7

hard diminished = 1, dim3, b5, b7

 

I thought that that was about it, but perhaps there is more. Anyway thanks again. El Nick.


__________________
El Nick
bishopdm

Registered:
Posts: 244
Reply with quote  #5 
For what it's worth, a collection of four such pitches (C-F-F#-B) would be called a Z-cell by some music theorists and is one of several important symmetrical structures found throughout the music of Bela Bartok's music.

Same sound, used in a completely different way...

__________________
David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
markjens

Registered:
Posts: 121
Reply with quote  #6 

El Nick, thank you for approaching this issue.  Not having been one of those fortunate students of Mr. Greene's, I have been gaining so much by all that is being shared here.  I've been playing for over thirty - five years, but way too much of it has been me playing something that sounds good without knowing why.  I've been on a search for those answers, and this has helped me immensely.  Paul, I've not seen this chart here before, and I wanted to thank you as well.  I hope that there are students here who would share things that might seem 'elementary' to them.  I have been having such fun playing Mr. Greene's arrangements (those that I am able thus far) and I am having nearly as much fun learning from you and him.  Thank you, Paul.

 

Mark

PaulV

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,711
Reply with quote  #7 

Here's another basic reference chart that Ted gave me regarding chord formulas.  The numbers that are dotted are scale degrees that don't or can't belong to that chord family.  I guess there is probably a similar chart for the major 7 chord family, but I don't have it.

--Paul



__________________
--Paul
markjens

Registered:
Posts: 121
Reply with quote  #8 

Wonderful Paul!  Thanks yet again for your help.  If I'm not careful, this theory stuff might just start to stick.  I appreciate it.

 

 

Mark

LA91331

Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Everyone,

I would probably call this a Cmaj7/11-5 chord. Same as the sus4th, but I just prefer this name because it sounds less complicated. (yeah right!). Anyways, I think it's important that attention is given to the overall voicing of the chord. This chord would probably sound best if the 11th(sus4th) and the b5 are an octave apart. It would probably sound less cluttered and a lot fuller. Just like the E7#9 chord(Hendrix Purple Haze chord), the #9th(b3rd) is the highest note and the 3rd is on the lower octave. Am I making sense? I am new to this whole theory thing and find it absolutely fascinating. Ted Greene was pure genius.


Oscar
LeonWhite

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 450
Reply with quote  #10 
Incredibly, I remember actually discussion a chord of this flavor (11 and b5) with ted and he said exactly what you said.  Of course I was asking where the extra 3 fingers went, but that's a different story.

L
LA91331

Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #11 
I think that the voicing is the most important in this case. Since the 11th(sus4th) and the b5th are both extensions, this chord would probably work best as a substitution chord. The sus4th can probably be used as part of the melody, while the b5th (in a higher or lower octave) can serve as a way to color the chord before moving on to, lets say a iim11 chord. This is actually a pretty nice chord when used in the right place and voiced accordingly.

The Leon White himself? Producer of Ted Greene's Solo Guitar?




Oscar
LeonWhite

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 450
Reply with quote  #12 

Yes.  That's me.

ChemicalChords

Registered:
Posts: 78
Reply with quote  #13 

Not to get off topic but, Leon were you at the studio when Ted Laid down the tracks for Solo Guitar?


__________________
Sam
LeonWhite

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 450
Reply with quote  #14 
Yes. I spent two years talking him into the project, and I was there every minute, as was William Perry. I was at A&M with Bernie Grundman for the mastering (with William) and at the plant for the first pressings.  Elsewhere we've mentioned bits about the sessions.  It was quite an experience.

-L
PaulV

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,711
Reply with quote  #15 
Leon,
Are there any "out-takes" from the session?  I heard that he did most of the tracks on the first take, but anything unused from the session would be a real treat to us all.
Thanks!
--Paul

__________________
--Paul
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

YOUR SUPPORT MAKES A DIFFERENCE :: DONATE