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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'm working on writing up Ted's two versions of "Summertime" (his chords plus lead sheet), and I need to name the chords.  There's one chord that is a little different, and I'm looking for your opinion.  It happens in both versions, but in slightly different places in the tune.  I've got my idea of what I'd call it, but it could have different names.  I've included a short passage so you can see how it's being used in context.
I'm attaching two short extracts, one in Am, the other in Bm.  You can see which one I'm talking about -- the one without a name. 
I'd appreciate your input.
What do you think?
Thanks!
--Paul

Attached Images
jpeg Extract_of_Ted's_Summertime,_key_of_Am.JPG (98.92 KB, 94 views)
jpeg Extract_of_Ted's_Summertime,_key_of_Bm.JPG (73.30 KB, 69 views)


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skotrock

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Reply with quote  #2 
All i got is either Ab6+ or FmM7/Ab - (1st example key) it seems like its a product of moving voices more than anything, like a lot of Teds stuff, and man it sure sounds cool!
TLerch

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi,
Since the movement is heading to C major (in the first example) I would tend to want to call this chord  a V7 of C so in this context I would name it
 G13 b9 (sus4) you could probably get away with calling it G#6#5 (worst choice), E7b9#5 or even Dmin9b5/Ab or Fmin(maj7) but considering the apparent function I'd vote for G13b9(sus4)
(it does somehow smack of the diminished cycle but the C natural mucks up the works)
Now the other example may have different ramifications! I'll look more at it and reply if I have anything clear to offer.
Good post!
Thanks

TLerch

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Reply with quote  #4 
The second example (in B min) seems to be F#7#5b9 moving back to Bmin.

This one seems to be more clearly V7 moving back to i

thanks for posting
Tim

TimGebel

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #5 
Hi... to me the chord in the A minor version sounds like IVminor of III - the I of the relative major key. If you take out the soprano (melody) and just look at the underlying harmony it's pretty obvious - Fm/Ab
I wouldn't call it a V chord. It has cadential character but more like in a plagal cadence, which is subdominant to I or subdominant minor to I. Calling it G13/b9/sus4 reminds me of calling a C/E an Em#5 or something like that

In the B minor version I would prefer Bm/A#. I guess Ted thought of Bm with a descending bassline -> Bm6, Bm/A#, Bm11/A, Bm/G#
Of course the Bm/A# implies a dominant sound but thats the case in any song with this progression (My Funny Valentine, In A Sentimental Mood, ...), so I think outlining the bass movement in the chord symbols is the most precise way to describe whats happening here.

What do you think?

Tim



bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #6 
Clearly (okay, to me), the first one's a minor subdominant, if you want a label. And the second example sounds like Bm with a chromatically descending bass line, ending on V (F#), for my money. Sometimes a moving voice is simply that...a moving voice. It doesn't necessarily change the underlying harmony. If something works linearly, but is not easily labeled, why try? Just my 2 cents...

Could we see Ted's sheets, Paul? Or are they here in the forum already?

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #7 
I'll have these sheets ready soon.  I'll send them to Barbara to be posted in the "From Students" section for next month (hopefully), along with my compilation pages for Ted's "Danny Boy" arrangement (which is one of my favorites now).

You guys are great!  A bunch of sharp musicians/guitarists - Ted would be proud.
Thanks for the input on the chord naming.  I agree about the Fm(maj7)/Ab for the first example (in Am), and for the minor with descending root for the second (Bm) example (although the F#7#5b9 also has the right sound and movement). 

It's interesting to see in some of  Ted's arrangements that he sometimes gave a chord two or even three different names, depending on how one wanted to think of that passage...so it's good to have different perspectives. Sometimes it isn't so clear-cut right or wrong. 

I guess what threw me off on the Bm example was the other notes (X, square, and diamond -- especially the X, which I assumed was intended to be part of that chord).  The X is a G note (#5 or b6 of Bm), and doesn't really fit well in the normal minor descending bass thing, but as a moving line is fine.

Thanks!
--Paul



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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #8 
Just an update:  The compilation pages for Ted's arrangements of "Summertime" (one in Am, one in Bm) and "Danny Boy" have been posted in the "From Students" section.
Check 'em out:
http://www.tedgreene.com/fromstudents/Summertime.asp
http://www.tedgreene.com/fromstudents/DannyBoy.asp

And thanks again for the helpful input!
--Paul


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