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sandemose

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi everyone, and greetings

I have a question on this topic, Harmonic Rhythm. Did Ted write any material on this subject? For me I think its a aspect of music that I need to work on, and by doing that releasing knowledge I yet haven't been able to put into practice. I would really like to read about Ted thoughts about the subject (I have Walter Pistons Harmony) such as strong/weak-beat and especially on ways to practice this. I love the way Ted put theory into practice and made it intellectually and emotionally understandable.

Best to all,

Sandemose

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"Its just a problem, we´ll deal with it" Ted Greene
barbarafranklin

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Reply with quote  #2 
Here is a cross section of some of Ted's RHYTHM STUDIES. Hope this helps. Barbara

Attached Images
jpeg Rhythm_Studies_1.jpg (270.03 KB, 229 views)
jpeg Rhythm_Studies_2.jpg (318.95 KB, 174 views)
jpeg Rhythm_Studies_3.jpg (375.72 KB, 183 views)
jpeg Rhythm_Studies_4.jpg (203.69 KB, 150 views)


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Barbara Franklin

PaulV

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Reply with quote  #3 
Barbara,
Wow, it seems that Ted has a paper for everything!  What a treasure we're all collecting with these gifts you post. 
Thanks!
--Paul

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--Paul
sandemose

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks alot Barbara! This was exactly what I was looking for! It really seems that you can ask much about anything and Ted had (and still has, thanks to you Barbara) answers to it. Thanks again,

Best wishes,

Sandemose

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"Its just a problem, we´ll deal with it" Ted Greene
bishopdm

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Posts: 244
Reply with quote  #5 
The Grove Dictionary defines Harmonic Rhythm as:

"Literally, the rhythm or rhythmic pattern of harmonic progression in a musical passage; that is, the rhythm articulated by the chords that make up the progression. Usually, however, the term refers simply to the rate of change of chords...."

This is what I've always understood the term to mean.  Is this what you originally had in mind when you asked your question?  I'm not sure Ted's pages address this (but I did just scan through them).




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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
sandemose

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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #6 
Hey Bishopdm! I wasent maybe so shure myself when I asked the question, but your definition from the book you mentioned was really intresting. Can you recomend any books on the subject? The books I have are more or less focused on traditional/classical harmony. Thanks for posting!

Sandemose

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"Its just a problem, we´ll deal with it" Ted Greene
bishopdm

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Posts: 244
Reply with quote  #7 
I'm actually surprised to find so little out there written about this (at least as a main title).  I'm sure there are many, many articles from music theory journals written about some aspect of rhythm that would include a discussion of harmonic rhythm, but I don't know off-hand where to direct you.  There is a relatively recent book on the subject (the only one I could find on the web), Harmonic Rhythm:  Analysis and Interpretation by Joseph P. Swain, that probably has a great bibliography on the subject.  Our university does have a copy and I believe I can access it electronically.  If you like, I can try to send you a copy of the bibliography.  Drop me a line privately at bishop@pharmacy.arizona.edu.

The area of harmonic rhythm study may be larger than I ever thought, and possibly more than you want to get into.   Can you be more specific about what interests you from the Piston book?  My copy is a later edition and includes Mark DeVito as a co-author.  I don't have the earlier edition, so I don't know how much was there originally.

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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
Bob

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Reply with quote  #8 

Bishopdm is right on the money when he wrote "the term refers simply to the rate of change of chords...." That's how Ted explained it to me. If one were to look at a standard that Ted re-harmonized you might note the one chord per bar becomes two chords per bar to four chords etc... Each time Ted changes the rate of chord delivery. This approach also increases bass line possibilities.


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Bob Holt
kontiki

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Posts: 256
Reply with quote  #9 
Sorry to revive an old thread, but this subject really interests me. Harmonic rhythm is too rarely discussed (if at all) and yet all great players, improvisers, and composers have an innate harmonic rythmic sense. Ted definately has it and I'm sure he analysed it at one point (he seems to have analysed everything).  

In one of the videos where he's playing "little drummer boy", I think,  He at one point says something like "nah, that's no good, I went to the one chord too soon". This is a perfect example of harmonic rhythm. He realises (of course) that by going to the One chord to soon he's creating an akward harmonic rhythm. 

Also in one of the Blues tunes/etudes  there's a series of descending 7ths (tritone subs) in bars 5 & 6 that could seems like there's no particular order, but if you look or listen closely, you'll see that he's hitting the traditional chords (the III IV & II) right at the time one would expect them to be played. When I realized this I was able to memorize that passage much more easily.

unfortunately like I said there's very little written about this (at least to my knowledge). So I re-ask the question: did Ted discuss this with his students and/or is there something in his papers about this?

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