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Rupert

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello..
Can anybody please explain what a 'diatonic chord scale ' is or looks like please..I've seen it mentioned in one of Ted's lessons but I cannot find any diagrams or charts on his site for this..
Any help would be much appreciated .
Thank you all..
DaveAnno

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Posts: 197
Reply with quote  #2 
Ted writes about this in his Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progressions books. I don't know if there's anything here on the site, but it's basically:

C major chord for example. The three notes are C E G, now move each note up to the next note in the C scale and you get D F A next would be E G B etc. You could go backwards too and from C E G move down to B D F and so on.

Of course it works for 7th chords too C E G B moves to D F A C, etc.


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Dave
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #3 
Ted has a whole series of lesson pages covering this topic.
I'll put them on my to-do list and get them on the site in the coming months.
Thanks for the quick explain, Dave!

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--Paul
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #4 
Here's something that might be helpful:
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/Tonality_part1_1976-05-28.pdf
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/Tonality_part2_1976-05-29.pdf

and
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/chords/TonalityTypes_DiatonicChordScalesInTriads_TedGreene_1985.pdf
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/chords/TonalityTypes_OpenTriad1stAnd2ndInversion_TedGreene_1990.pdf

More will come in the months to come, but this should give you a firm foundation.
Good luck...and have fun!



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JohnN

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Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #5 
Adding my 2 pennies worth - this was the concept I was trying to understand when I first bought Modern Chord Progressions where it's explained briefly on page 17 and 18. More info below:

Roman
Numerals: Triad: With Seventh: Chord Spelling

I C major C major 7 1,3,5, (7)
ii D minor D minor 7 1,b3,5, (b7)
iii E minor E minor 7 1,b3,5, (b7)
IV F major F major 7 1,3,5, (7)
V G major G (dominant) 7 1,3,5, (b7)
vi A minor A minor 7 1,b3,5, (b7)
vii B diminished B minor7 flat5 1,b3,b5, (b7)


I have attached chords for the harmonised scale of C major that I find easiest to remember and play, rooted on the 5th string and based on what I would call the open A shape.

I hope this is helpful, it is something I struggled with until I got a decent teacher.
John

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (258.10 KB, 23 views)

Rupert

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you all so much for your help and assistance on this ...This should give me plenty to go on.
Thank you all.[thumb]
Rupert

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Reply with quote  #7 
Rupert

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #8 
Hi Paul
I was looking at the lessons you posted up on thread for me : Tonality Part 1 & 2
I seem to have come a bit lost on the theory , can you or anyone else straighten my thought process out on these 2 questions I have?
1) Ted mentions the major scales which I get : 2 whole steps, 1 half step, 3 whole steps and 1 half step: 
So when ted wrote down all the major scales ( keys) why did he right for C# major scale that there is  E# in there when we all know it is actually F that lives next door? I've never heard of this before? can anyone please explain why?

2) Ted then goes on to talk about thirds in intervals when he is explaining the minor third he states that Dflat to E would be a interval of a 2nd not a 3rd
can anyone please help clear these two things up for me as I am confused by this..
thank you guys [smile]
James

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Posts: 333
Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Rupert,

1).  Whether to use E# versus F is called spelling.  E# and F natural are two legitimate names for the same sound on the guitar.  The fancy word for two names/one sound is "enharmonic."  E# and F are enharmonic, two names for one sound.

In writing a major scale, the correct way to spell is to use every letter of the musical alphabet: A B C D E F G.  We only have seven letters.  For C# major, that's C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#.  All seven letters are sharp.  If we called it F instead of E#, we would have both F natural and F#.  We wouldn't be using the letter E and we would be using the letter F twice.  No good.  Hence, the correct spelling is E#.  It may be easier for you to think of the note as F natural, but technically E# is correct in the key of C# major.

2). Interval names have two parts: the number part and the quality part.  The number part can be unison, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, octave...  The quality part can be diminished, perfect, augmented, major, minor, etc.  To figure the number part, you just count through the alphabet, remembering to count both the starting and ending letter.  From C up to A, the interval is a sixth because we count the letters: C D E F G A.  There are six letters including the start and finish.  Flats and sharps have no effect on the number part of the interval name.  They do, however, totally affect the quality part of the name.  So Db to E, we count two letters: D E and realize we have a second.  What kind (= quality) of second do we have?  Well, now we look at the major scale of the bottom note, Db.  The Db major scale goes: Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db.  The intervals from the bottom note of the major scale to a higher note are all either major or perfect.  The second, third, sixth, and seventh are major from the bottom note (= root) of the major scale up.  The unison, fourth, fifth, and octave are always perfect.  So in this case, Db to Eb is a major second.  When we expand the major second by a half step (without changing the letters! because that would change the number part of the interval name), we get an augmented second.  So Db to E natural is an augmented second.  Note that it sounds the same as C# to E, which is a minor third.  The augmented second, Db to E, and the minor third, C# to E, are enharmonic.  They are two names for the same sound.  But the correct way to name an interval is to figure out the number part by counting letters, then figure out the quality part by comparing it to a major scale with the same root.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thank you, James....this is a very clear, easy-to-understand explanation.  (Could we ever expect anything less from you?)
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Rupert

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #11 
Hi guys...James thank you so much for your time explaining the 2 questions I had..This has helped to clear things up in a big way..It's amazing how much theory you miss out on when you are mostely salf taught...Thank you James once again..much appreciated ....
[smile]
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