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wkriski

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Reply with quote  #16 
I really like this example for analysis - two voices, the bass line uses roots/3rds and the melody line is usually roots/3rds too, making most beats a root and 3rd combination. melody line has fifth on 3rd beat in measures 2 and 3.

Where can I get more of these 2-3 voice arrangements with or without chordal analysis? I'm not as worried about contrapuntal rules (parallel 5ths, etc) even though I did purchase software that can check this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorshelter
here's one poor example of cycling, only 2 voices and no 7th; I know, I know, but it shows the pairs of chords with the repetition of the "melodic" fragment, and bass movement alike.....



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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #17 
Thanks Charles, that's a great thread and I'm getting value out of going over it again. The example in that thread is excellent and I am working on that concept which is - open triads, using two 'inversions' per measure which creates a moving bass line, usually with root and 3rd as well as fifth.

It's good to recognize the shapes of each structure - like a minor, major, dominant shape on different sets of strings. So one shape with root in bass, one with 3rd, 5th, etc. Then connect them in a musical way by moving the bass line in a smooth voice leading line.

For progressions I'm looking at IV V I and also moving through the cycle of fifths. I'm also working on modulations to other keys so I can keep going ad infinitum - so making a diatonic chord a secondary dominant, etc. And for the most part I'm just working on a two or 3 note structure since moving through chords and modulation is the key part of it in my opinion - being able to decide where to go on the fly and be aware of where you are at any time.

Perhaps I can post some things when I get it down. I'm amazed that more people aren't interested in this concept!

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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #18 
wkriski:

A great place to start would be the Bach two- and three-part inventions.  Wonderful music!

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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks. I'll look for some analysis of those, or do them myself for practice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopdm
wkriski: A great place to start would be the Bach two- and three-part inventions.  Wonderful music!

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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Charles:

I've gone through many of the inventions but have never done any formal analyses of them.  I'm not sure everyone here on the Ted Greene forum would be interested in such analyses, but if you would like, you and I could go through some of them via private email (bishop@pharmacy.arizona.edu).  Do you have a copy of them (for keyboard)?

As for the guitar transcriptions, I've never seen them so can't comment, but I'm intrigued!  The original keyboard versions seldom, if ever, cross voices; consequently the range between highest and lowest pitches can be great.  Because of this, I guess I always thought they would be too difficult to play on solo guitar, but apparently not.   At only $7.50 for the set of two-part inventions, how can you lose?

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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #21 
I'm watching Ted's videos once again and there are some real gems. In part 4 he plays for a long time and I am trying to transcribe some. I have enounce for slowing down vids as well. The open triads are key and have common shapes for major, minor, etc but two voices sounds great as well. Combine that with key modulations and it's so awesome, sorry I can't contain myself! The biggest challenge is being able to move a line while keeping the notes ringing, so finding a good fingering for that.

I'll try to write down some sheet music as I discover things but I'm nowhere near as disciplined as Ted in that regard!

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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #22 
I made up a short passage based on one of Ted's vids and entered it into guitar pro 5 so I will post shortly for review.

The nice thing with those 2 part inventions on guitar is that they are in treble clef making it easier to analyze, at least for me. With two voices as you move the bass line ascending you can analyze it different (since chords share common tones).

If you google 'bach invention chord analysis' and similar words you get something like this http://solomonsmusic.net/schenker.htm

Ted mentions IV V I a lot and in one vid using the ii Dominant to modulate to V so in Bmajor using C#7 to get to F#major as the new I chord. This is knows as V of V I believe. C#7 being V of F#major (formerly V of B major key).

I echo Charles' request, I am quite interested in any analysis David and others have done and can post, and I will start to the same. I have a lot to work on and document already!

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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
barbarafranklin

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Reply with quote  #23 
To all interested,  A while back I posted Ted's version of Bach's Invention #13 in A mi.  It is in the lessons section under "Tunes" along with other Bach pieces.
Barbara


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Barbara Franklin
wkriski

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Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #24 
Okay here's a passage inspired by part 1 of Ted's baroque vids at time 1:00. Let the notes ring especially the bass (I didn't write it out as two parts for simplicity)

I'm sure there are many ways to analyze it but to me it's an ascending diatonic passage from F#m, G#dim, A, Bm, C D7 then chromatic D7b9 E7 E7b9 back to F#m with some repeat melodic motifs. So the E7 to me is just modifying the expected Em to a dom.7 common practice. The b9's could be considered diminished chords, in either case you get some chromatic passages.

I have it in guitar pro 5 so you can hear it if you want let me know!

Attached Images
jpeg baroque_1.JPG (69.15 KB, 73 views)


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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com

bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #25 
I'll be happy to post something, but give me a little time to come up with something that will be instructive to as many people as possible (regardless of background).  I particularly like the E major invention, so perhaps I'll start there.

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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
barbarafranklin

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Reply with quote  #26 
I also have my piano music of Bach's A minor invention, with Ted's analysis & his chords, plus many chords which Ted had me write in.  Ted agreed with my assessment or corrected it, you will notice, (fortunately I did not do too badly).   Ted did not like to use figured bass.
I can post this too, if anyone wants it.  Barbara
or email it specifically to someone..


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Barbara Franklin
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #27 
Thanks Barbara - sure post!
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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #28 
Thanks Charles! Here's a link to the mp3 (I will try to do a video at some point) http://onlineguitarcoaching.com/wp-content/uploads/baroque_1.mp3

I hope people help us and you can check the google search and links I provided above, along with my newly written example above with chords!

While we wait for others' analysis, it might be worthwhile analyzing some yourself for practice, just try to put something down. For example Bourree in E minor is a great one with mostly 2 voices. Usually strong beats 1 and 3 will have notes that should be analyzed, in this case I did all 4 beats. Look at the key signature for starters to see the key. Look for lots of IV, V and I's. Many cases its root and 3rd, 3rd and 5th, etc.

I'm hoping to develop a course on this in a step by step manner as I figure things out so your feedback/questions would be much appreciated.

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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
wkriski

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Reply with quote  #29 
How'd you know people call me KDawg!! Yeah this is truly awesome stuff and lots of fun. For me the concept of improv in baroque was new although I did hear of continuo by the bass and I'm a fan of Yngwie Malmsteen . I see this more as chord melody than single notes because at least one or two other voices are ringing at the same time and you can move through key centers if you know how to do that on the fly
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Will Kriski http://www.willkriski.com
barbarafranklin

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Reply with quote  #30 
Hi wkriski, I clicked on the link, but where do I find the piece you are referring to?  

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Barbara Franklin
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