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Eullrich

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Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #1 
Hey Guys,

Just when I think I have it figured out... I get stuck on a silly question.

I'm working off of the top set v2 chord chart - 7 basic qualities and their inversions. Looking at the top line, E7 chords - why are these built with D and not D#? Isn't D# the 7th of e major?

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Eullrich,
The tones for an E7 (or E dominant 7th) chord are:  1, 3, 5, b7  or E, G#, B, D.
The tones for an Emajor7 chord are: 1, 3, 5, 7 or E, G#, B, D#.
So, yes, you are correct that a D# is the 7th interval for a E major.
But a dominant chord is another animal - the b7 gives it a different sound.
You can check out Ted's Chord Constuction (Formulas) sheet in the "Fundamentals" section:
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/fundamentals/ChordConstructionFormulas_1976-05-26.pdf

Thanks for asking.  Hope you're getting a lot from these incredible lessons from Ted.


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Eullrich

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Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you. Yes that clears that up. Why is maj7 not included in these sheets?

My goal is to us the v2 sheets to create chord scales.

I've looked around the fundamentals section but haven't found information on chord scales with 4 note chords. The tonality worksheets are a good start but only cover triads. Can you point me in the right direction?

And yes this site and teds books have been amazing. I discovered about a month ago and have been hooked since. This is exactly what I need to get out of the rut I was in. Thank you for such great work!
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #4 
Eullrich,
In the V-system pages Ted does cover the major 7 chord in his "Seven Basic Qualities" - it is #7 on his page (the last one).
Ted used the symbol of a triangle for major.  This is pretty common.

At present I don't find anything that is posted for harmonized scales with 7ths (4-note chords).
There are some pages in Ted's archives that I'll look at to get up soon.
Sorry that this fundamental subject hasn't been addressed properly.  Stay with us and we'll get to it.  Thanks for asking.

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James

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Posts: 278
Reply with quote  #5 
If you have Ted's book, Modern Chord Progressions, he discusses diatonic chord scales starting on page 17.

In C major, the diatonic 7th chords are: Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5 Cmaj7.  In a diatonic major chord scale, the chords are always maj7, m7, m7, maj7, 7, m7, m7b5, in that order.  So you can see you need four kinds of seventh chords: maj7, m7, 7 (also known as dominant 7), and m7b5 (also known as half diminished 7).  And then you need to put them on the right roots in the right order.  You can use a Seven Basic Qualities page to find a voicing you like.  The voicings you need to build your chord scale will all be in the same column on the Seven Basic Qualities page.  Hope that helps.

Ted practiced diatonic chord scales a lot so he really knew them well.  It's a great foundation!  Have fun.
Eullrich

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Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you both for such speedy and great answers. This opens up a new world for me. Cheers!
lordamercy

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Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #7 
Hey Eullrich,

Here's some PDFs I made for V-System Chord Scales and Systematic Inversions (V-2, V-4 and V-5). Hope they're of some use!!
Matt

pdf V-2 Diatonic Chord Scales.pdf      (corrected version - 28may16)

pdf V-2 Systematic Inversions.pdf     

pdf V-4 Diatonic Chord Scales.pdf     

pdf V-4 Systematic Inversions.pdf     

pdf V-5 Diatonic Chord Scales.pdf     

pdf V-5 Systematic Inversions.pdf      

PaulV

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Posts: 1,569
Reply with quote  #8 
Really nice, Matt.
We should put these in the "From Students" section.
What do you think?

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bclark

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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #9 
Say, those ARE nice!  Thanks!
/Brian
DaveAnno

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Posts: 175
Reply with quote  #10 
+1 on the nice.
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Dave
Eullrich

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Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #11 
These are great matt, thanks for sharing! I've also been having alot of fun playing with chord scales up and down the strings in one / two positions, as opposed to down the neck.

Any thoughts or resources on adding more colors while staying in diatonic scale?
DaveAnno

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Posts: 175
Reply with quote  #12 
Add a new diatonic tone on an unused string.
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Dave
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hey guys,

I’ve been reviewing Ted’s pages on Diatonic Chord Scales, and he only used triads or 7th chords - not adding 9th, 6th, or 11ths except as decorations or added melodic note.  I think the reason for this is that the 9, 6, and 11 will create problems on some of the chords.

For example let’s look at some of these inthe key of C: 

Triad chord scale:
C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - B dim. - C

7 chords scale: 
Cmaj7 - Dm7 - Em7 - Fmaj7 - G7 - Am7 - Bm7b5 - Cmaj7

Now let’s add a 9th to that:
Cmaj9 - Dm9 - Em7b9 - Fmaj9 - G9 - Am9 - Bm7b5b9 - Cmaj9

The Em7b9 really sounds like something else, perhaps a G7/6.
The Bm7b5b9 also is more of a Dm7/6.
So these don’t fit in the scale proper.

Okay, so how about a 6th chords scale: 
C6 - Dm6 - Emb6 - F6 - G6 - Amb6 - Bmb5b6 - C6

This is interesting:  the Emb6 is actually the same tones as a Cmaj7, so it really doesn’t sound like any kind of E chord.
The Amb6 is the same deal, but for an Fmaj7.
And the Bmb5b6 is the same as a G7.
So these three fall out of the conventional sense of “chord scale” viewing them as vertical structures. 

Try adding 11’s and you’ll have similar problems.

However, viewing these chords in a horizontal sense, these all can be considered “Diatonic Chord scales” because the notes stay within the key and all move in a scale-like manner.

I’m guessing that Ted would use these kinds of chord scales, but make “adjustments” at the problem spots.

What do you think?


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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #14 

Update:  I just found one lesson page wherein Ted harmonizes a scale with R, 5, 3, 6 and names the iii chord as minor b6, but he mostly avoids the vi and vii degrees.
In one spot he named the vii as minorb5b6, but in parentheses gave it the name of the V7 chord.
And the vi as minorb6, but in parentheses gave it the name of the IVmaj7 chord.


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DaveAnno

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Posts: 175
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulVachon

However, viewing these chords in a horizontal sense, these all can be considered “Diatonic Chord scales” because the notes stay within the key and all move in a scale-like manner.



I agree with that. Moving lines.

How about moving diatonic groups like cde, def, fga, etc. Add9 no5 triads? It's interesting to try moving different inversions of those too. 


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Dave
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