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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #76 
Hi,
Would like a little help in identifying the "correct" chord name in one of Bach's pieces that Ted arranged.
I'm presently writing up all of the Bach Chorales that Ted notated.  The notation and grids are newly generated.
 
This is from Chorale #253.  The chord in question occurs in measure 3, on beat 4.
I included the chords before and after in case that helps.
Also, if you think a different fingering would be better than what I've diagrammed, let me know.

How would you analyze this chord?
Thanks in advance.

Attached Images
jpeg Bach_-_Chorale_No.253_-_EXCERPT.jpg (43.02 KB, 20 views)


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DaveAnno

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Posts: 175
Reply with quote  #77 
I've heard that chord in traditional Japanese music!

Dsus4(b9)

[wink]

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Dave
James

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Posts: 279
Reply with quote  #78 
Hi Paul,

You might want to look at Bach's notation when rendering these chorales into staff notation.  Bach begins this chorale on beat 4 so his bar lines fall a little differently from where yours are.  Also, I would give this a key signature of two flats since it's in g minor.  My Kalmus edition notates this chorale with two flats.

The chord in question is a ii6/5 chord (in classical parlance) with an accented passing tone in the bass.  ii6/5 means it's a ii7 chord.  The 6 and 5 are figured bass which says that it's in first inversion. The C bass note, not the D, is  what you use to analyze the chord because the D is an accented passing tone.  So that makes it Am7b5 in jazz parlance.  It's quite dissonant for Bach which makes me wonder what the German word he was harmonizing was.  Bach often harmonizes harsh, dissonant lyrics with harsh, dissonant music.

Also of interest is the Dm which comes a couple of chords earlier.  This is a rare minor dominant (meaning chord built on the 5th scale degree), written lower case v instead of V.

Also, this chorale ends with a half cadence, which is quite unusual.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #79 
James,
Thank you!  Wow....that key signature slip-up is significant!  It came about because I was doing 4 of Ted's Bach Chorales that he put on one page.  The one before #253 was #3 - which is in G.
Then when I separated the chorales into individual files/pages and deleted the unwanted measures, the key signature for #253 reverted to the first key signature (#3).  OMG...thanks for pointing this out.

Regarding the bar lines, this is a conscious decision - unpopular among classical purists, I'm sure - to eliminate the incomplete measures at the end of a phrase that are to be "made up" with the pick-up measures of the next phrase or at the top of the page.  This old practice just makes for awkward reading, in my opinion.  Nothing in the new notation  "sounds" differently, just the navigation looks different on the page.  I hope this doesn't get me excommunicated from the church of classical music.

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James

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Reply with quote  #80 
Hi Paul,

Well, the point of a pickup is to begin with (an) unaccented note or notes.  This is particularly important in vocal music where a stressed syllable falls on beat 1 and and unstressed syllables precede it in the pickup.  These chorales have German words that have stresses landing on beat 1 of each measure.

I don't know about you but I sing the national anthem:

Oh, SAY can you SEE by the DAWN'S early LIGHT.

Without a pickup, that would be:

OH say can YOU see BY the dawn's earLY light.

The classical composers were definitely conscious of declamation, the art of placing stressed words on stressed beats.  Hence, when a song or chorus started with an unaccented syllable, they used a pickup.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #81 
James, 
Don't get me wrong:  I do use the pickup measure.  However, I also include those pickup notes in the final measure before a repeat or going to the next section.
The notes fall on the correct beats of the measures.  You'll see when I send you the pages.

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James

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Posts: 279
Reply with quote  #82 
I apologize, Paul, because I did get you wrong.  I now see that you had a pickup measure.  Hopefully our communications have straightened out any other issues and folks will soon be able to enjoy these Bach transcriptions Ted made.
LeonWhite

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Reply with quote  #83 
James,
I couldn't help notice you reference to 'stressed notes and stressed beats.'  It is a wonder to me that we don't have millions of classical composers now.  [smile]
James

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Posts: 279
Reply with quote  #84 
Yeah, stressed beats.  Those nervous guys with goatees and sunglasses. [smile]
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