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klasaine

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Posts: 137
Reply with quote  #31 
When I do occasionally get it I can ONLY do it with my middle finger ... angled slightly sideways.
*It's easier on my Ventura arch top (L5 copy) because the neck is really slim.

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ken lasaine
James

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Posts: 275
Reply with quote  #32 
As Kontiki points out, fingering can definitely depend on register.  I clearly remember Ted showing me in a lesson how he would finger a chord in a common way for most neck locations but use a different fingering for the same chord really high up the neck.  Usually the high fingering would involve using more fingers and less barring.  (I'm not saying anything about the particular example you're talking about.  I'm just agreeing with Kontiki that neck location can be important when deciding how to finger.)
LeonWhite

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Posts: 422
Reply with quote  #33 
Vibrato on the chord could also be a factor in the fingering. I'm sure many can still see that 'rocking' Ted could produce when more fingers were used (hard to rock a 3 string barre). 

I'm with everyone on the Bb name- UCLA taught Paul's asceding  # notion, but an A# in an Eb chord seems an unnecessary complication, at least in this example.  However, Context, context, context . . . that always rises to break our rules it seems, but the 5th of Eb being A#? My brain won't go there without a lot of proding, or doughnut.  And of course naming the note Bb can change the sound sound too . . .
Leon
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #34 
Here is a chord from Ted's "Autumn in New York" arrangement that will be posted in a few days.
Anyone want to recommend a fingering that will allow for sustained notes as the X's are played?
The only one I can come up with involves the GVE 5th finger, using finger 1 to cover strings 5 and 3.  Use finger 3 for the top string.  Then add fingers 2 and 4 for the X's on strings 4 and 2 (interesting!)
It seems a bit awkward.  Any other suggestions?

Attached Images
jpeg Autumn_in_NY_E9+5.jpg (54.42 KB, 19 views)


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TLerch

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Posts: 237
Reply with quote  #35 
Paul, It looks like your answer is workable, I can't really see another viable alternative. Also remember that with this particular grip you can finger all the notes together at once then pluck the two x notes after the dots. In other words it might be easier to finger all at once and let your right hand do the separating. Looking forward to playing thru the arrangement when you post it.
All the best
Tim
James

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Posts: 275
Reply with quote  #36 
Hi Paul,

For some reason when I click on the attachment in your post, the web site asks me to login and then still doesn't expand the graphic.  So I can only look at your graphic very small.  Or very blurry if I enlarge the web page in my browser.

Anyway, I don't see an open low E note indicated on Ted's grid.  But your notation has that.  Without the low E, the chord is doable, but hard, using the thumb for the bass G#.  That's the only other option I see if you want to let all five notes ring.

In any case, it's not the most pleasant sounding Ted excerpt, at least in isolation.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #37 
James, 
Ted's note next to the chord says, "Opt: add low E here" and I notated it as such.
Once the arrangement is posted you'll see how it works in context.  It's part of a nice Dm6 - E7 fill going to Am11.  I'd probably tend to think of it as Bm7b5 - E7, but Ted did like minor 6 chords.  

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #38 
For the above-mentioned E7b9+ chord:  it appears in my write-up of Ted's "Autumn in New York"
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/students/PaulVachon/AutumnInNewYork_TedGreene_1986-08-29_GridsNotes.pdf
at measure 8.
Now you can see how this fits within the context of the tune.

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Anders

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Posts: 60
Reply with quote  #39 

Hi,
I've been studying Ted´s intros/endings from his solo guitar album (can't have enough of these) and I came across a chord I don´t think I've used before.
Check out second line, chord #5. Sounds kind of weird on its own, but blends good with the other. How would you name this chord? D11(b5)/no root, is the most logical I can think of.

/Anders

Attached Images
gif justfriends_intro.gif (741.00 KB, 33 views)

TLerch

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Posts: 237
Reply with quote  #40 
Hi Anders, nice work on the transcribing. I think your chord name is a s good as any, it is certainly functioning as a D7 type sound. If you were to try and name it Ab7#5 it is then hard to justify the G note. I suppose it could be Amin13 (maj7)no root but that is not an improvement. I think your name, D11b5 is just fine.
thanks for writing this up
all the best
 Tim

P.S. on a very small side note. it might be helpful to mention that the so called European 7 that has a little line thru the vertical is something Ted used to use to indicate Major 7. At some point he stopped doing this perhaps because it was causing confusion to players who would read it as a dom7.  it occurs to me that it might be worth considering   (at least for your American audience) to avoid confusion to use the American 7 without the line to indicate Dom7.
Anders

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Posts: 60
Reply with quote  #41 
Hi Tim, thanks a lot for your help. Yep, I will think of this chord as a D11(b5).
I could have bought a Ab7(#5) if the G note was played as an added melody, but Ted is playing it like this.
I should maybe mention that Ted´s gtr is tuned down 1 1/2 steps on this tune, in case anybody wants to play along. The first C# note on the recording is a 12th fret E harmonic. So, play a harmonic and let that ring through the first chords. Works over the second "G major" version too.

Good point there about the "7". I will try to remember that in the future.


PaulV

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Reply with quote  #42 
Hi guys,
I'm working on one of Ted's lesson pages that will go up in a couple of months and would like some input on the chord name.
In the attached chord grids, Ted named the second chord as Ab+11.  Did he really intend that it should be Ab9#11 no3 ?  (Currently I don't have the "no3" included.)
Why call it a Ab+11 if it has a b7 and a 9?
As you can see from his diagram, if the optional note on the 5th string is used (a C, or the 3rd), then Ted offers to name the chord Ab9b5.
Your thoughts?.........

Attached Images
jpeg Chord_Grids.jpg (140.23 KB, 15 views)


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James

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Posts: 275
Reply with quote  #43 
Hi Paul,

I think your analysis is correct and it should be called Ab9#11 and Ab9b5 with the optional note.

Generally, in Ted naming, + means #5 and not add.  Since the frets on Ted's original grid are all faded away, I wondered if he wanted an E natural on the 5th string rather than an Eb.   But that still wouldn't explain 11 since the second string has D natural = #11 and not Db = 11.  So I think what you have done is correct.
TLerch

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Posts: 237
Reply with quote  #44 
Hi Paul, 
I think your name is correct and then if you use the optional note (3rd) that he is pointing to with the long arrow then the name should be Ab9b5 since the natural 5th is no longer present.
good mystery, i searched thru MCP and didn't find that particular voicing so I couldn't verify his usual name but it was fun to look thru the book as usual.
all the best 
 tim
James

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Posts: 275
Reply with quote  #45 
Hey, check out Chord Chemistry page 52!  Ted lists what he calls "Augmented llth Chords (+11)," meaning ninth dominants with #11, and he shows the formula: 1 3 5 b7 9 +11.  So by +11 he means 9#11, although I think the latter is clearer.  I'm wondering if +11 is older Ted naming style.  But anyway, it's right there in Chord Chemistry.
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