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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #16 
Did I hear that someone wants to play "Name That Chord"?
Okay, let's do it again, this time with a different twist.
Here is a series of chords.  They're all the same chord, just different inversions and fingerings.
These were taken from Ted's Personal Music Studies papers, but I re-drew the grids so they are easier to read.  
This is an excerpt of a larger document that will be posted for December in the V-System section of the tedgreene.com site.

1)  What is the name of the chord?  It may have different names, based on chord synonyms.  
     For a list of chord synonyms, see pages 6-8 of this documents:  http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/v_system/14_The_43_Four-Note_Qualities.pdf

2)  What is the V-System number for this chord?

I don't know if we should let James Hober play....  That wouldn't be fair.  So let's how well the rest of you all have learned Ted's V-System so far.
Hint:  this is not a chord that you would find in any of the "Seven Basic Qualities and Their Systematic Inversion" pages.

Attached Images
jpeg Name_That_Chord.jpg (154.22 KB, 23 views)


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TLerch

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Reply with quote  #17 
C dim/maj7   -  D13b9 (no root)  -  Ab7#9 (no root)
There are other possible names but these are what I feel are most pertanant give the lack of context.

V8

hope everyone is having a nice weekend
Tim
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #18 
Tim,
You nailed it.  
Ted has this one labelled as D13b9 no R, and of course it's a V-8.
He has this listed under chord type #10.
We'll do some more later.....enjoy your extended weekend.

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #19 
Here is an Eb9#11 chord from one of Ted's arrangements that we'll be posting in February (yes, I have to plan far in advance to get these pages prepared!)  
The question is not about the name of the chord, but how to play it.

Do you think Ted did a double-stop on the 5th & 6th strings, and then just played the Bb bass note without moving any fingers, or do you think he would have lifted his finger off the Eb and then placed it on the Bb?

Also, regarding playing the A to A# notes on the top string - I'm assuming Ted did a full barre to get the A.  Now, when he played the A#, did he lift his little finger off the F note on the 2nd string in order to get it?  Any other ways to do this while sustaining the F?  Maybe finger rolling?  Seems a bit awkward for me.

I know some of you will say that the A# should be a Bb, and technically that is correct for the Eb chord, but in the context of the song, the melody is going A-A#-B (in the next measure).  That seems to work better than A-Bb-B. (I was taught to use a # if the line is ascending, a flat if the line is descending.)

Your thoughts?

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jpeg Eb9#11.jpg (107.84 KB, 15 views)


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TLerch

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Paul,
 According to Teds grid the note order that you wrote out isn't exactly correct, the high A is an X so it should come right after the main chord then the bass note Bb(box) then the Bb in the melody (diamond). That is unless for this example TG used a different ordering system than he normally used.
One fingering (the way I would do it) that will work is play the chord(solid dots) with a fingertip doublestop on the G and B strings, use the first finger to get the A# note while still holding the 3rd on the D string and then move the 2nd finger to the new bass note while the other notes continue ringing, then use the 4th finger (so far unused) to play the high Bb in the melody.
hope that make sense.
Tim
PS
regarding the enharmonic name for Bb, I would call it Bb regardless of whether the line is ascending or descending, the chord name is Eb9#11 which means it contains a #11 A and a 5th Bb, for me to read a chart that has an A# in the melody of an Eb9 chord creates cognitive dissonance. I think because I am in the habit of always looking at the melody in a bar in it's relationship to the chord of the moment I prefer to see melody notes names that reflect their placement in the chord. Of course this is just my preference and you can write it anyway you think best : )
thanks for all the great work you are doing
klasaine

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Reply with quote  #21 
I think he would have doubled stopped the low Bb and Eb, barred across the 5th fret to get the A and then grab the high Bb with his pinky (maybe even just flatten out his pinky to get the high Bb).
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ken lasaine
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #22 
Tim and Ken,
Yes, good suggestions for fingering this baby.
Wow, I can't believe I screwed up with the notation on this...pretty basic "how to read Ted diagrams" info.....and even posting it with a question here.  Sheeesh!
(I think I'm going a little crazy with all these diagrams!  The V-system material has me spinning....   

Here is a corrected version of that passage.
Yes, Tim, I also prefer the chord tones to match the chord itself....but some people find it easier to think linear rather than vertical, so I was thinking about that.  I made the change as you suggested.

Attached Images
jpeg Eb9#11.jpg (102.63 KB, 5 views)


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klasaine

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Reply with quote  #23 
If the Eb is only a 1/4 note then there is really no need to double stop the low Bb.
I'd still barre across the 5th fret to get the #11 (high A).

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ken lasaine
kontiki

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Reply with quote  #24 
Paul, don't forget your transcription of your own lesson with Ted where he gave you an alternate fingering for this chord. According to the transcript the fingering would be (from low to high) 3 3 1 4 4 2.
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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #25 
Kontiki,
You know, I forgot about that lesson!  
4th finger partial barres and me have a difficult time. I'm just now starting to get comfortable with the major add 9 (for example, D/9:  D,F#,A,E,A) with the little finger on the top two strings.
It's not so much getting the fingers in place, but to be able to jump into it and play it cleanly is the trick.  That Eb9#11 with the two double-stops and then a roll for the Bb note.....hmmmm....maybe I'll cheat on this one. 

Ken, the notation was generated by me, not Ted, so maybe the Eb could be a half-note.  Should it?  That's one of the questions here.

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klasaine

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Reply with quote  #26 
Context will help answer that question. I guess we'll have to wait til we see what tune it is.
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ken lasaine
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #27 
Ken,
Actually, in this case the context means little, because this measure is a fill, only the last note is a word leading to the next verse of the song.

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klasaine

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Reply with quote  #28 
Well then, for better or for worse, it 'could' be left up each individual performer/performance - ?

*I still say TG dbl stp'd the Eb and Bb ... it was easy for him.

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ken lasaine
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #29 
Ken,  You're probably right.  Ted was a double-stop master!
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kontiki

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Reply with quote  #30 
A good question is "what finger to use for the finger-tip double stop"? I think we all agree that if this chord is low enough on the neck, then a full barre solves the problem. But if it's higher up the neck and your hands aren't that thin, then an alternate fingering is needed. I'm actually surprised this topic hasn't come up before. there are plenty of these chords in Ted's arrangements. I usually do what Tim mentioned, but i find i'm cleaner using my second finger to do the finger tip double stop. If i use my third finger i have a tendancy to botch up the double stop or not get my second finger up high enough to avoid touching the A string. the same goes for the 7#9b5 chord that looks like this chord but on a lower string set.
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