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jebdiesel

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #1 
I wonder if some of you might share some devices you use for changing keys for a second or third go around on a tune. Modulating up a fourth is of course simple as well as a half step up, and I find modulating a major third up is nice and pretty easy. I struggle a bit with modulating the key a minor third. Just trying to find nice combinations of key changes to run a medley of tunes or even one tune through twelve keys without always moving straight through the circle which gets monotonous . Little passages or harmonic inventions and yes of course Tedisms that I know you guys are loaded with. Thanks a lot, you have all done such a great job on the site.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Jeb,
Good question.  Ted modulated a variety of ways, and I don't think there is any one formula that he followed other than his heart.  He did like to go up or or down! a third or minor third.  He didn't do the 1/2 step up thing...I think that sounded to cliche to him.  A good way to study his methods is to learn some of his arrangements.  I'd suggest my write-ups or "compilation" pages in the "From Students" section to help you follow the diagrams and tune better.
Also, please check out the "Harmony & Theory" section:  there are several pages on "Modulation"  http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/harmony.asp
You might find something useful in the "Chord Studies" section as well.
Happy hunting!

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kontiki

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Posts: 250
Reply with quote  #3 
As for modulating up or down a minor third:
 
modulating UP a minor 3rd: I'm pretty sure Ted talks about this in one of the Kevin Griffin lessons.  treat the  minor iv (in major or minor) as a ii  (of the new key )

modulating Down a minor third (from a major key):  treat the vii as a ii (of the new key)   

hope it's clear.

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kontiki

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Reply with quote  #4 
another modulation that Ted seemed to favor for going down a minor 3rd (from one major key to another) is to play a minor 6 chord on the ii and then treat that as a minor iv which will then go to a V a whole step above it.

for example    in Eb   make your way to a Fm6   which is ii of Eb, but iv of C. then make your way to a G dominant of some sort and slide into C.  it especially works well with a cadential 6/4 chord  between the minor iv and the V (which in this example would translate to a C/G).

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #5 
Here's some helpful pieces in the "From Students" section written Mark Thornbury:
http://www.tedgreene.com/fromstudents/lesson2.asp

and
http://www.tedgreene.com/fromstudents/DannyBoy_MT.asp

and
http://www.tedgreene.com/fromstudents/OldManRiver.asp

These all deal with modulation by Ted.  Great info and examples.

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jebdiesel

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #6 
Thanks guys that's perfect.
Yes, going up a minor third: make the 4 minor and it becomes 2 minor of new key.  I had that but it's just making it sound effortless and natural, like when Ted changes keys it sounds like a little ├ętude or something and just flows to the next key without that obvious. "Oh, here I go."
The going down a minor third device I didn't understand, but now I got it, thanks Kontiki.  I've seen your transcriptions.....yikes, you really have it goin' on.  
Paul your transcriptions of the arrangements are amazing and thank you so much.  I have learned about six or seven Christmas ones and I try to play the tunes in different keys, fingerings ect.... If It wasn't for your material I would only have the short arrangements in Chord Chemistry. Still never gonna be great at it, but I've been hacking at the Christmas tunes about 20 years.
Anyway, thanks guys.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks, Jeb.  I appreciate the encouragement.
Happy Thanksgiving!

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jebdiesel

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #8 
Oh wow I never saw those modulation lessons and exercises in the harmony section. Ok great pretty much another gold mine of info. Exactly what I was asking about. Sorry that section seems to have grown quite a bit since I checked it out.
Keith

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Posts: 105
Reply with quote  #9 
I seem to recall hearing Ted discuss modulating in one of the taped lessons. Sorry but I don't remember which one it was.
Teds comment has I,IV, then ii,V of the new key. This would be used in the final ending of a chorus.

Hope this helps.
Happy holidays.
Keith
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