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spideyguy

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Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #61 
For 7 I get:
F Eb6  dm Db9

For 8 I get:
F Db7 D/F# Eb/G

PaulV

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Reply with quote  #62 
Spideyguy, Did you intend to refer to examples #11 & 12 (not 7 & 8)?
I get something a slightly different from you:

Ex. #11
F---Eb6----D----Dbmaj9
I---bVII---VI---bVI

Ex. #12
F----Ebmaj7----D/F#----Eb/G
I----bVII----VI----bVII

Correction:  The red font above is incorrect.  Here is the correct chords for Ex. #12:
F----Dbmaj7----D/F#----Eb/G
I----bVI----VI----bVII

Ted also offers a variation for Ex. #12:
F----F/A---Fdim7/Ab---Eb/G
I----I----Idim7----bVII

Interesting how Ted is taking this simple melody further out harmonically with each example.
--Paul

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spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #63 
Paul

Your right I did mean 11 and 12. I was curious how you are getting the bVII for example 2? To me it doesnt add up but I am probably looking at it wrong as my last posts have been pretty hit and miss.

Just curious

Chris
spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #64 
Paul

Thanks for the reply, hopefully I can clarify my question. The 2nd chords notes in #12 that i get are F(held over from the previous chord) Db on the A string Ab on the G string and C on the B string. So I get a Db7/F not an Ebmaj7. Again I could be reading this wrong.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #65 
Chris,
Oops!  Yes, I made a mistake...that second chord in example #12 should indeed be a Dbmaj7/F - (not Ebmaj7 as I wrote, and not a Db7/F as you wrote).  The C note is the major 7th of the Db.
I'm going to go back to my previous post and make the corrections.
Sorry for the confusion.

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #66 
Okay....on to the next examples #13 and 14.

Attached Images
jpeg Warm_Harmonization_of_Melodies_with_b7,_1980-10-01,_Ex_13-14.jpg (211.37 KB, 34 views)


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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #67 
Anybody game for continuing these studies?  We still have #13 and 14, plus one more to finish this page.
--Paul

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bishopdm

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Posts: 244
Reply with quote  #68 
Yes, please...by all means!

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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #69 
OK David, the ball is in your court....see the examples in post#66 (above).
--Paul


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bishopdm

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Posts: 244
Reply with quote  #70 
Example 13:
FM, FM7, Dm/F, Fm7

Example 14:
FM, F7sus4, Dm/F, DbMadd9/F

Observation:

Both examples exhibit a descending tenor and ascending soprano (with the soprano being identical in both) over an F pedal.

I could put in roman numerals, but they don't really offer any insights into these very short successions.


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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #71 
David,
Do you think Ted could have been thinking all F chords in both of these examples?  Instead of Dm/F, perhaps it could be F6 -- that's a pretty common form for F6 (although no 5th).  And the Dbadd9/F ....just maybe an Fm7#5 (well, that's kind of a stretch...but....)
Just musing.....
I think you hit it on the head seeing the ascending and descending lines.  This is no doubt what Ted was going for: the inner movement.  Then the names of the chords are secondary.
--Paul

All right...now for the final example in this series:

Attached Images
jpeg Warm_Harmonization_of_Melodies_with_b7,_1980-10-01,_Ex_15.jpg (200.60 KB, 22 views)


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bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #72 
Hi Paul:

Yes, you could be right about that F6 chord.  For my money, the doubled D might slant it more toward the Dm/F, but I can certainly see your point.  The exercise is really all about F!

I did my analysis at work without a guitar, so I didn't get to "hear what I saw" before I sent it to you.  I like your musings; that's how we learn things, isn't it, by wondering, "...could it also be so and so?"

It would be enlightening to know what Ted might have played after that fourth chord...


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David Bishop
Tucson, AZ
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #73 
Okay, since no one has commented on example #15 I thought to take a crack at it.
F---Eb6---Bb7/C---F9
I---bVII---IV7---I7
The final F7 has an interesting sound because of the half-step between the 9th (2) and the 3rd.  Some people may argue that a 9th technically needs to be voiced above the 7th in order for it to be called a 9th instead of a 2.  But this doesn't figure into the way I've been taught about chord construction.  Especially with the b7th in this chord, it would be odd to call it a dominant with a 2, or a F7(add2).
Your thoughts?

The third chord here could also be viewed as a E7(#5) or other possibilities. 
Your thoughts?

Ted also offered two alternative chords for the third spot:  Cm9 and Bb7/C.

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #74 
Hi guys,
When working on one of Ted's pages that will go up next month, I found a little unrelated tidbit at the bottom of the page.  I don't know what else to do with it, so I thought to post it here.
It was written for a student, "more or less," and seems to be an expanded key chord move in the key of A.  I don't know what else to call it, but it seems like this would be a nice little modern-sounding tag for ending a song in A.  
Any other thoughts about how you might use it or define it?

Updated 3/2/2015, This page has now been moved to the "Harmony & Theory" section in the Lessons:
http://www.tedgreene.com/images/lessons/harmony/ExpandedKeyChordMove_TedGreene_2005-01-18.pdf


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TLerch

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Posts: 250
Reply with quote  #75 
Hi Paul.
 This is very beautiful and fun to play. Thanks for this morsel. I think your definition of "expanded key" is very apt. He hits on all the non-diatonic bass notes plus the IV and V. it is really very cool and it is a sound that I have heard Ted play variations on many times. There is a lesson in the Mark Levy collection whare Ted talks and demonstrates these sounds. I'll snoop around and see if I can find it and pass it along.
Thanks
 Tim
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