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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'd like to start a thread wherein we discuss some of Ted's various methods on harmonization of given melody lines.
To start with let's use the examples from the most recent posting in the Harmony & Theory section entitled, "Warm Harmonization of Diatonic Major Scale Melodies."
First off we look at the given melody line, then we'll focus on two examples at a time.
We'll need to give the chords their proper names, perhaps a harmonic analysis with Roman numerals, notice anything interesting like chromatic lines, ascending or descending bass or inner lines, etc.  You get the picture.

This should be fun and I'd encourage anyone to jump in....it would be great to hear from those who are not necessarily "music experts" for your take on it, to ask questions, etc.

So....here is the given melody.  It's in the key of D, but in some of the examples Ted will move it to other keys.


And examples #1 and #2.


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jpeg Warm_Harmonization_of_Diatonic_Major_Scale_Melodies,_EX_1-2.jpg (156.50 KB, 116 views)


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spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #2 
The analysis I have for the 1st example is

D/9 Em/9 F#m7/6 G/9

I-----ii/9----iii7/6----IV/9

The minor 3rd could actually be considered 1maj7 w/3rd in the bass though.

Example 2 leads with the same 1 chord
Then moves to a VIIb/9+11 (C/9+11) or it could be a major 4 w/an added 4 in the bass
Moving to a G/B and ending w/ a D/A

Really interesting and fun exercise!

My $.02 anyone else?
bishopdm

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Reply with quote  #3 
Probably the simplest way of labeling function for these would be as follows (without referring to 9ths, 11ths, etc.):

I–(ii)*–I/F#–IV

I–IV/IV–IV/B–I/A

*By putting parentheses around the ii in the first example, I am indicating its function as a passing sonority.

And just my $.02, for consideration...

Beautiful sonorities!  More, Paul?

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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #4 
Here's my take on #1:
D(add9)---Em9---Dmaj7/F#---G(add9)
I---ii7---I/3---IV
Ted labeled this one as
"Diatonic Harmonization:  SWB (Scale-Wise-Bass) leading [or heading] to IV"
The third chord here has been discussed in other threads on this message board...as a possible F# minor chord with a flatted 6th (or a sharp 5 in addition to the natural 5th).  This is a strange creature, but in some of Ted's arrangements he will use this chord and call it an F#m(+5). 
I don't want to entirely rule out the iii function. That root & 5th on the lower strings sure gives a feeling of F# as the root.
Interesting to note that the bass line is intended to be ascending: D-E-F#-G, but because the first chord is a D, the bass line jumps down to the lower octave for the E-F#-G.
Try playing this same move in the key of E to get the bass line ascending properly:
E(add 9) with open 6th string---F#m9---Emaj7/G#---A(add9)

Here's my take on #2:
D(add9)---C(add9, #11, no 3rd)---G/B---D.
I---bVII---IV/3---I
Ted wrote about this one:
"Expanded Diatonicism via bVII"
Example #1 has an ascending scale-wise bass line.  In example #2 we have a descending bass line, which is not exactly "scale-wise" because the C (second chord) is not diatonic to the key of D.  Perhaps this is what Ted meant about "expanded diatonicism."
Does anyone else have any thoughts about that phrase, "Expanded diatonicism"?

My $.02 cents.....
--Paul


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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #5 
OK...same melody, examples 3 and 4:

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spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #6 
Just curious about the C chord in example 2. Ted talked about in the California videos about the Flatted 7th being a key in and of itself. Could this possibly be an example of that?
spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #7 
ex3 I get:

III7 vi II9 I(6)

I am assuming we are still in the key of D. The 1st could also be a D9 implying the D since it isn't in the chord at all. And I put a parenthesis on the 6 for the optional note. Really nice that you almost don't even notice the chromatic line descending in the middle of all the pretty notes

To me the last chord could be considered several things. Ted did note that the last chord is a Vsus but if you add the option note wouldn't it be considered a vi/A? Also since you only have D's and A's in the chord I really don't "feel" its suspending all that much to me.

*Edit*
(The more I play with this the more I think the previous paragraph is wrong)

Ex: 4

The chromatics are easily noticeable.
II7(b5) V7/6 I(b5) IV9

I put the b5 in parenthesis because it could be part of the chord or just a passing tone since it is chromatic.

It might not be the easiest analysis and I could be off but this quite fun to speculate over!
kontiki

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
To me the last chord could be considered several things. Ted did note that the last chord is a Vsus but if you add the option note wouldn't it be considered a vi/A? Also since you only have D's and A's in the chord I really don't "feel" its suspending all that much to me. 
 

Spideyguy, I realize that it's unfair to quote you since you more or less repudiated that 
paragraph, but it brings up some interesting and key points, namely what constitutes a 
suspension.

I don't want to go into a long-winded definition of suspensions
but i do want to say that a dominant suspension (and resolution leading to a cadence on I) at its most basic would be 
(in a two voice context):


higher voice:1-7-1
bass:            5-5-1

so in essence all you would need would be A (in the bass) and D for a dominant harmony suspension in the key of D. If you had a two-voice context that's exactly what you would need. Traditionally the D would have been "suspended "  (tied or repeated) over from the previous "chord" (usually a IV  or ii)  and would fall to the leading tone C# while the A was still in the bass. In more modern contexts the suspension chord can resolve directly to the I without the leading tone(7) showing up.

of course harmonic rhythm plays a crucial role, but that another whole can of worms.
I hope this is clear.

incidently, there's a G in the chord also, not just D and A

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spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks for the clarification! Like i said the more i played it the more i was hearing the suspension. Also, I can't believe I missed the G! It makes more since now that the chord could be G/9.
PaulV

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Reply with quote  #10 
Here's how I see these:

Example #3:
F#7----Bm7----E9----A11 (opt.9th)
III7----vi7----II7----V7sus
Ted wrote on this one:
"Chromatic line passing thru II9 to Vsus dominant"
I hadn't noticed the inner chromatic line at first. To bring it out (A# to A to G# to G) I played each note of the line followed by the rest of it's chord.  Interesting...it changes one's perception of the melody.

Example #4:
Bb7(b5)----A13----Ab7(b5)----G9
bVI7----V7----bV7----IV7
Ted's note:
"Heavy chromaticism heading for bluesy warm IV dominant"
Notice the exact same voicing structure on the bottom 3 notes of each chord descending in 1/2 steps, modified only by the soprano melody notes.
By the "Flat Five Sub Rule" one could consider the Bb7(b5) chord to be E7(b5), and the Ab7(b5) chord to be D7(b5).  I guess it depends upon whether you're thinking cycle-4 (cycle-5) or straight chromatically descending dominants.
It' easier for me to think the latter, but both are correct.
--Paul



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PaulV

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Reply with quote  #11 
Can we move on to the next ones?
Here's examples #5 and #6:

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Keith

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Reply with quote  #12 

I'm thinking, 
B sus2 sus4, Am7/6 , Abm7 b5, Gm9 for the 1st example.

I'ld say approach chord technique.

Starting with the final chord ( Gm9) think back cromatically to get the Ab m7 , Am7. Then the Bsus2 sus4 has a cool tritone move in the 2 middle voices when they move to the Am7/6. Check it out, they sound way cool.
Instead of the Bsus2sus4 I tried B11, Bm7/11, Bbm7 b5 and F#7/A#  there too and liked em.

I tried F#7/A#, Am7/6, E7/G#, Gm9 too. It kept that cool tritone thing going.

BTW  Tritone meaning in the true sense of the word not a flat5 chord sub. Watch the notes on the 3rd and 4th strings, how they alternate between 5ths and 4ths a b5th apart, you'll see what I mean. I really like that sound.
ATB
Keith




PaulV

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Reply with quote  #13 
Keith,
Good input...I like your alternate variations.
By the way, does this series of harmonization studies (and a lot more to come) begin to answer the question you posed in another thread about how Ted went about harmonizing a melody?  As you can see he seemed to have endless ideas.  Kind of makes me wonder how he ever was able to commit to just one when writing out a chord melody arrangements...knowing that he could take the harmony in so many different directions.
--Paul


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Keith

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Paul,
You bet! Also forcing myself to verbalize has always been benificial, so thanks for starting this thread.
I purchased a couple of reharmonization books from Mike Longo. Many of the examples on this page make sense to me now in light of the material in Mike's books. I recomend them highly.

Thanks for all that you have done, and for the oppertunity to engage with you and the others about this subject that is so dear to me. When i try to talk about this stuff at home my wife and daughter get annoyed with me, even my dog leaves the room ; ).

My best to you.
Keith  
spideyguy

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Reply with quote  #15 
@Keith what books were they?
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