Registered: 1487573925 Posts: 5
Reply with quote #1
I am absolutely fascinated by the five part video on "baroque improve" on the Ted Greene channel. I may be kidding myself, but I think I understand conceptually what he is explaining. But the basic building blocks of how to actually do it are missing. It feels like we are joining the conversation very deep in.
At one point he begins to tell the interviewer to practice his diatonic triads and embellish them, but before he can suggest actual exercises the interviewer cuts him off telling him he already knows those exercises. I can figure out what he meant from that one second snippet, but that is just one small exercise. It felt like Ted was about to lay out a plan of exercises to get these interesting sounds integrated into playing. I am an OK player with an understanding of theory that vastly outstrips my clumsy fingers. But I know little of the baroque music Ted is improvising in these videos. I would like to explore this more. The lessons on the tedgreene.com site are pretty overwhelming. They are not organized thematically or in any natural progression for learning. At least I could see no organization. Which of the lessons, or what Ted Greene resource would people recommend as a starting point for this material? Was there a lesson that he gave to guitarist just beginning the exploration of baroque counterpoint? Is there a good progression of lessons that Ted himself might have used to help a student develop. Thanks!
Registered: 1449168594 Posts: 64
Reply with quote #2
W. Kriski has provided some transcripts of some excerpts of those videos and can be found here in TG land. The interview is world class guitarist / educator Steve Herberman. Barbara Franklin featured him on a blog at one time. There are multiple exercises for baroque to be found, such as here in TG land, Sid Jacobs has two courses , one at Mike's Masterclasses and one at Jazz Guitar Society, and some nice Baroque-sh exercises in Steve's Going for Baroque Part 1 at Mike's Masterclasses and also a DVD from Jazz Heaven where Lage Lund demonstrates some Baroque-ish type of sounds with Tenths employing a GVE like super / sub approach. My personal choice to load into my back pack if i were headed for a desert island would be the Sid Jacobs materials. But that material is already under my fingers, so I'll probably just take an extra container of sunscreen. And, maybe a hat..... __________________ TABA1
Registered: 1268171845 Posts: 284
Reply with quote #3
Ted's sheets teaching his Baroque style counterpoint are here:
http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/baroque.asp also see some transcriptions labeled "Baroque" here: http://www.tedgreene.com/transcriptions/default.asp
Registered: 1148888488 Posts: 1,619
Reply with quote #4
Glad you found this site and are digging into the lesson materials. You are correct in saying that there is little or no organization of the lessons on the site, and there is no step-by-step process to walk through everything that is posted. We've organized stuff on a very basic level, like Blues, Arrangements, Single Note Soloing, Harmony & Theory, Fundamentals, The V-System, etc. And as we post things we've been adding sub-categories as they become necessary or it seems like the logical thing to do to keep related material together. There are several reasons for the lack of in-depth organization. Here are some ideas that come to mind: First of all, Ted didn't compose his lesson sheets in a graduated manner. He wasn't thinking of creating a method book. Ted wrote these up for his private students, and many of them came out of a need to fulfill a certain request or to address specific subjects. A lot of Ted's students were somewhat advanced players who already had a grasp on a lot of basic fundamentals of music and the guitar fingerboard, so not a lot of that is covered, yet there are some pages for somewhat beginners. Also, much of the basics can be found in Ted's published books: Chord Chemistry, Modern Chord Progressions, and Single-Note Soloing Vol 1 and 2. Another important aspect is that we are still in the phase of getting Ted's lessons posted. Many, many sheets are yet to be posted. Most of them require some kind of notation or re-drawing of grids, or translation of handwritten comments - all to make them more presentable, easier for Joe Average to be able to read and understand. So once everything is posted then perhaps someone may try to make a sort of study guide for them....similar to what Leon White did with his " Trail Guide to Chord Chemistry." That's for the next generation. I hope to live long enough to see all of Ted's material posted. It's a lot of stuff, but we're making good progress. In the meantime, I suspect you'll have to follow Ted's general advice: look over the material, find something you really love and dig into that. Don't worry about everything else. As George Van Eps mentioned about his 3-volume book Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar, he said it was not meant to be studied from cover-to-cover, but that one should jump around, finding things that interested them, learn the concepts and apply them. Good luck! __________________ --Paul
Registered: 1268171845 Posts: 284
Reply with quote #5
I have to tell the story about the one time in a lesson I had with Ted that dealt with Baroque improv. But first another story:
When I was a teenager, I liked to play basketball but I wasn't very good. One day I was shooting baskets alone at the neighbors house across the street. (We didn't have a basket/net at my house.) I thought, just for fun, I'm going to try a drop kick. So from the foul line, I drop kicked the basketball and it went in! No one was there with me to see my great feat. That was the first time I tried. I could never do it again even though I must have tried a few hundred more times. It was a fluke, first time success. So in my lesson, Ted was doing his Baroque improv thing, which as you know is pretty cool. I thought, I'm just going to do that, too. And I went for it. Unlike Ted, I just stayed in one position using a barre. I have a degree in Music so I knew the voice leading principles of common practice music. And I had played classical guitar. But I had never tried to improvise it. I just tried to make sevenths resolve down by step and leading tones resolve up and otherwise I just copied the feel that I had just heard Ted playing. Ted was shocked! He asked me, "How did you do that?" I said, "I don't know. I just tried to play with the same feel you were playing with." But it was kind of like the first time luck of the drop kick. I haven't pursued that kind of playing the way Ted did. Maybe one of these days I'll start working through some of the material and trying to do it. Mostly I like composing my own style of counterpoint. That's hard enough.
Registered: 1259000746 Posts: 47
Reply with quote #6
MIch Chmara has a new book out ...just released ...on counterpoint......also....tim Lerch goes over a little counterpoint in his videos......